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	<title>Comments on: Those Annoying Converts</title>
	<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/</link>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-20604</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 00:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-20604</guid>
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		<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-20538</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-20538</guid>
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		<title>by: Patty</title>
		<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-12912</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-12912</guid>
					<description>Warm greetings in the True Christmas Spirit!

I hope all is well, you seem very knowledgeable. I read through your blogs--very sharp indeed! Do you have a Doctorate in Divinity or Philosophy?

Anyhow, I was wondering if you could give some priceless advice. I am thinking of buying some good old Catholic theology books for some family members and loved ones, and well, I recently received an advertisement for this very interesting book called &quot;Communicatio in Sacris: The Roman Catholic Church against Intercommunion of non-Catholics&quot; by Mr. William J. DeTucci.

I was wondering if you have seen any book review on this book? I could not find anything on the author. It seems the book talks about the Role of Vatican II in the Modern World and how some Traditionalists have resisted many of the Modernistic teachings of Ecumenism, Religious Liberty, and the New Mass, as opposed to the old Latin Tridentine Mass.  However, I also recently read Benedict XVI's Motu Proprio ( www.vatican.va), which seems to be give the Liberty of &quot;Open Communion&quot; to so-called Traditional Catholic Groups who dissent from Vatican II, i.e. Marcel Lefebvre's SSPX, Mark Pivarunas' CMRI, Clarence Kelly's SSPV, Br. Michael Dimond's Most Holy Family Monastery, the various Saint Benedict Centers, Jason Spadafore's Raphael Society, Patrick Taylor's Society of the Virgin Mary, and so many other Independent Bishops at Large)--all who promote Intercommunion Latin Mass Ritual, of course! I think the Spirit of Vatican II is really being recognized now by many of the Traditionalists who once followed Bishop Lefebvre in resisting Vatican II Conciliar Reforms, but since the Motu Proprio Latin Mass Ecumenism has been widely promoted and it has been &quot;well received&quot; by many of these same various Traditionalists Sects and also by many Liberal Bi-Ritual Bishops who offer both the Latin Mass and Ecumenical Modern Liturgies.

However, breaking the rule of judging a book by its cover, and only peaking its table of contents, it seems to me this book is an itchy reaction to this Neo-Ecumenism that both Greek and Latin Churches have been involved with. Not sure if you have read the book, or know of some theologian who has written a review? Here is the link to the contents that I browsed:

http://www.lulu.com/content/1431544

and also here:

http://www.vladcatholic.com

I would most greatly appreciate any book review that you or a theologian has done. This book seems to have positive merit in as much it claims to be &quot;a Compendium of Roman Catholic Doctrine on the subject of Intercommunion with non-Catholics. This book produces the overwhelming theological consensus for the Dogmatic Teaching condemning Intercommunion with non-Catholics, putting together a treasury of Sacred Scriptures, Church Fathers, Doctors, Saints, Theologians, and Popes who have written on the matter.&quot;

However, I just wanted to verify that before I make my last minute shopping for this Christmas &amp;#38; New Year Season.

May God bless you all!

Kind regards,

Patty</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warm greetings in the True Christmas Spirit!</p>
<p>I hope all is well, you seem very knowledgeable. I read through your blogs&#8211;very sharp indeed! Do you have a Doctorate in Divinity or Philosophy?</p>
<p>Anyhow, I was wondering if you could give some priceless advice. I am thinking of buying some good old Catholic theology books for some family members and loved ones, and well, I recently received an advertisement for this very interesting book called &#8220;Communicatio in Sacris: The Roman Catholic Church against Intercommunion of non-Catholics&#8221; by Mr. William J. DeTucci.</p>
<p>I was wondering if you have seen any book review on this book? I could not find anything on the author. It seems the book talks about the Role of Vatican II in the Modern World and how some Traditionalists have resisted many of the Modernistic teachings of Ecumenism, Religious Liberty, and the New Mass, as opposed to the old Latin Tridentine Mass.  However, I also recently read Benedict XVI&#8217;s Motu Proprio ( <a href='http://www.vatican.va' rel='nofollow'>www.vatican.va</a>), which seems to be give the Liberty of &#8220;Open Communion&#8221; to so-called Traditional Catholic Groups who dissent from Vatican II, i.e. Marcel Lefebvre&#8217;s SSPX, Mark Pivarunas&#8217; CMRI, Clarence Kelly&#8217;s SSPV, Br. Michael Dimond&#8217;s Most Holy Family Monastery, the various Saint Benedict Centers, Jason Spadafore&#8217;s Raphael Society, Patrick Taylor&#8217;s Society of the Virgin Mary, and so many other Independent Bishops at Large)&#8211;all who promote Intercommunion Latin Mass Ritual, of course! I think the Spirit of Vatican II is really being recognized now by many of the Traditionalists who once followed Bishop Lefebvre in resisting Vatican II Conciliar Reforms, but since the Motu Proprio Latin Mass Ecumenism has been widely promoted and it has been &#8220;well received&#8221; by many of these same various Traditionalists Sects and also by many Liberal Bi-Ritual Bishops who offer both the Latin Mass and Ecumenical Modern Liturgies.</p>
<p>However, breaking the rule of judging a book by its cover, and only peaking its table of contents, it seems to me this book is an itchy reaction to this Neo-Ecumenism that both Greek and Latin Churches have been involved with. Not sure if you have read the book, or know of some theologian who has written a review? Here is the link to the contents that I browsed:</p>
<p><a href='http://www.lulu.com/content/1431544' rel='nofollow'>http://www.lulu.com/content/1431544</a></p>
<p>and also here:</p>
<p><a href='http://www.vladcatholic.com' rel='nofollow'>http://www.vladcatholic.com</a></p>
<p>I would most greatly appreciate any book review that you or a theologian has done. This book seems to have positive merit in as much it claims to be &#8220;a Compendium of Roman Catholic Doctrine on the subject of Intercommunion with non-Catholics. This book produces the overwhelming theological consensus for the Dogmatic Teaching condemning Intercommunion with non-Catholics, putting together a treasury of Sacred Scriptures, Church Fathers, Doctors, Saints, Theologians, and Popes who have written on the matter.&#8221;</p>
<p>However, I just wanted to verify that before I make my last minute shopping for this Christmas &amp; New Year Season.</p>
<p>May God bless you all!</p>
<p>Kind regards,</p>
<p>Patty
</p>
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		<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-12847</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-12847</guid>
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		<title>by: Peter</title>
		<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-6059</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-6059</guid>
					<description>I seem to recall, probably while studying about the Latin RCIA, that at some point in the Early Church the whole congregation in some way went through catechumenate with the catechumen(s), so as to draw from their 'zeal' so to speak.  And it didn't seem like just the Lenten Scrutinies ceremonies they were talking about, either, but something more.

FWIW....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seem to recall, probably while studying about the Latin RCIA, that at some point in the Early Church the whole congregation in some way went through catechumenate with the catechumen(s), so as to draw from their &#8216;zeal&#8217; so to speak.  And it didn&#8217;t seem like just the Lenten Scrutinies ceremonies they were talking about, either, but something more.</p>
<p>FWIW&#8230;.
</p>
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		<title>by: JACK</title>
		<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-1124</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-1124</guid>
					<description>I appreciated Tucker's article tremendously and have seen this trend many times in Latin Rite circles.  (Not being Byzantine I cannot speak for its veracity there.)

I think Henry does allude to some of the problems, but I will put it this way.  As I see it in the Latin church, we have whole generations who were uncatechized for all practical purposes.  And yet we live in an age where getting your hands on written material setting forth the church's teaching is easier than ever before.  So there are plenty of people -- converts and reinvigorated cradles alike -- who have taught themselves the doctrines of the faith and the beauty of the faith's content has overwhelmed them.  They naturally develop a zeal for what they have seen.  I compare it to the zeal seen in the Gospel of John and the story of Andrew's call as an apostle.   In that whole exchange between Jesus and Andrew and John there's a lot of depth about the christian life, but the part I want to focus on is his racing off to Simon to tell him that &quot;We have found the Messiah.&quot;  When you find what you truly desire, something that is truly good and of great value, you want to share it, not horde it.  All the more when you find Him and recognize that He answers the deep desire of your heart.  That's what creates the zeal in the convert.  But the problem is that many of us, having focused so much on theology and doctrine and reading these texts in the process of our conversion, begin to mistake right belief in doctrine as the be all end all of living the Christian life.  And of course, there is so much more than that.  That's where the disconnect comes up, and I think for Protestant converts, because of their past background, it is amplified.  So I see the concerns about some of the characterization that Tucker makes (although I think some is just in fun), but the problem is real, in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciated Tucker&#8217;s article tremendously and have seen this trend many times in Latin Rite circles.  (Not being Byzantine I cannot speak for its veracity there.)</p>
<p>I think Henry does allude to some of the problems, but I will put it this way.  As I see it in the Latin church, we have whole generations who were uncatechized for all practical purposes.  And yet we live in an age where getting your hands on written material setting forth the church&#8217;s teaching is easier than ever before.  So there are plenty of people &#8212; converts and reinvigorated cradles alike &#8212; who have taught themselves the doctrines of the faith and the beauty of the faith&#8217;s content has overwhelmed them.  They naturally develop a zeal for what they have seen.  I compare it to the zeal seen in the Gospel of John and the story of Andrew&#8217;s call as an apostle.   In that whole exchange between Jesus and Andrew and John there&#8217;s a lot of depth about the christian life, but the part I want to focus on is his racing off to Simon to tell him that &#8220;We have found the Messiah.&#8221;  When you find what you truly desire, something that is truly good and of great value, you want to share it, not horde it.  All the more when you find Him and recognize that He answers the deep desire of your heart.  That&#8217;s what creates the zeal in the convert.  But the problem is that many of us, having focused so much on theology and doctrine and reading these texts in the process of our conversion, begin to mistake right belief in doctrine as the be all end all of living the Christian life.  And of course, there is so much more than that.  That&#8217;s where the disconnect comes up, and I think for Protestant converts, because of their past background, it is amplified.  So I see the concerns about some of the characterization that Tucker makes (although I think some is just in fun), but the problem is real, in my opinion.
</p>
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		<title>by: Henry Karlson</title>
		<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-937</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-937</guid>
					<description>I wish people read what I write -- if they did, they would see I was actually pointing out the &quot;inquisition&quot; methodology you find in many &quot;zealous converts&quot; is the problem I am criticizing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish people read what I write &#8212; if they did, they would see I was actually pointing out the &#8220;inquisition&#8221; methodology you find in many &#8220;zealous converts&#8221; is the problem I am criticizing.
</p>
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		<title>by: Sean</title>
		<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-910</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Nov 2006 03:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-910</guid>
					<description>I agree with Ivan. Chill out, Henry Karlson, your're bowing and scraping to the old demon 'power', even if it has a clerical dress. Ivan is correct - Such is not Orthodoxy, nor is it the true, beautiful meaning of the word Catholic...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ivan. Chill out, Henry Karlson, your&#8217;re bowing and scraping to the old demon &#8216;power&#8217;, even if it has a clerical dress. Ivan is correct - Such is not Orthodoxy, nor is it the true, beautiful meaning of the word Catholic&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Ivan</title>
		<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-909</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Nov 2006 03:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-909</guid>
					<description>Monsieur Henry Karlson speaks like a medieval Latin: heretics, heretics, heretics. Why post on a Byzantine website? Such perspective ia more appropriate in Spain, but it is certainly far removed from Orthodoxy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monsieur Henry Karlson speaks like a medieval Latin: heretics, heretics, heretics. Why post on a Byzantine website? Such perspective ia more appropriate in Spain, but it is certainly far removed from Orthodoxy.
</p>
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		<title>by: Bob G</title>
		<link>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-690</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://byzantineevangelization.com/2006-0908/those-annoying-converts/#comment-690</guid>
					<description>Do we have that many converts that this is a real issue?  Most converts that are interested in eastern Christianity become Orthodox, and most that are interested in Catholicism go Roman... that being said I came back to the Church via the EC (was baptized &amp;#38; raised Roman), but I tried to blend in &amp;#38; learn since, at least, the Byzantine Church was new to me.  Yet, I can appreciate the zeal of converts, and a careful reading of Luke 15 shows that there should be joy in the discovery of the kingdom.  I wish that my parish had some of this zeal at times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do we have that many converts that this is a real issue?  Most converts that are interested in eastern Christianity become Orthodox, and most that are interested in Catholicism go Roman&#8230; that being said I came back to the Church via the EC (was baptized &amp; raised Roman), but I tried to blend in &amp; learn since, at least, the Byzantine Church was new to me.  Yet, I can appreciate the zeal of converts, and a careful reading of Luke 15 shows that there should be joy in the discovery of the kingdom.  I wish that my parish had some of this zeal at times.
</p>
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